First question: Is this a fresh or dried plant material tincture? This is REALLY important to know. We almost always use dry plants since it is easier to control the water content/ratio and it is cheaper to use Vodka instead of Everclear. We use 40% vodka for nearly everything, the cheapest we can find.

You are comparing two different measurements for your ratio. One is weight and the other is volume. The problem is they have no relationship to each other. If you were using grams and milliliters then you could make that comparison since they are directly related.

You should not have to open the jar to see if it needs more alcohol. It will not lose potency but opening it should not be needed.

Alcohol will penetrate just fine without blending. The only time I have used blending is if I needed to keep from having to add more liquid due to wanting to keep a particular ratio.

We shake our tinctures for about 2 weeks. We then press as time allows or needs dictate. It is becoming our belief that a period of as little as 4-5 days is enough for many plants.

There is no ratio relationship between weight ounces and fluid ounces. Without any reference I am assuming that is what you mean. You will need to WEIGH each part and not just use a measuring cup to assure proper ratio. So, you would need to WEIGH 16 ounces by weight of vodka. Does that make sense now?

Also, you will find that 1:2 with dry material will be way too dry. We use 1: 5 as our standard and find that many herbs and formulas are on the edge of being too dry.

The difference between ground and unground material is the speed of extraction. Ground material will extract FASTER and has nothing to do with potency. Unground material is also harder to keep in the menstuum.

You can do it either way you wish. We extract formulas that Patrick has put together. This is because they will not change, at least very often.

For personal use it is sometimes best to keep the herbs separate so you can custom mix them as needed. Once they are mixed you cannot separate them!

I know nothing about the herb you asked about. If it is NOT resinous, then regular 40 or 50% vodka should do the trick just fine.

The medicine is there in either condition. Dry plant material is normally more economical to work with due to the less expensive alcohol that is/can be used.

My first guess is that that plant is primarily an astringent. Is that why you are looking to use the plant? If so, I believe there are other less expensive astringents out there that could be used.

I would use 40% to tincture it.

As I stated, we use 40% for everything except resinous things like boswellia, myrrh and gumweed.

Speaking of gumweed, it is great as an expectorant. So is elecampane. Combined with mullein it really helps the lungs.

Yes on both counts. There are VERY FEW that we use everclear for.

I use powders all the time. I press them through a cloth. We have cloths for sale on our site if needed or you can use anything.

I am not a proponent of the Moon, Sun or any other trick. Make the tincture and press/use it when needed.

We use a handkerchief to strain. All depends on how clear you want your tincture. You do not have to strain at all though and can take the plant as part of the medicine.

You can make a tincture of any ratio in any jar you choose…. as long as the volumes are adequate for that container.

We do our tinctures using a scale capable of measuring in grams. I buy our scales on ebay.

Might be a little large but one like this will work.

I have some small scales that I will be putting on our sales site soon as well.

In our workshop classes we make a 1:5 tincture in pint jar by putting 20 grams of plant and 100 grams of vodka. There is plenty of room for double that as well. Maybe triple.

I put the ultimate container (pint or quart) on the scale and tare (zero) it. I then weigh the plant and alcohol directly into the container. The ones we use for our classes weigh up to 500 grams.

That scale is just an example. You will want to find one that meets your exact standard. I have one that weighs up to 20 or 30 pounds because sometimes I weigh LOTS of herbs for stock.

Put the jar on the scale and tare it to 0. Then add the plant material, say, 200 grams. For a 1:2 ratio you would then tare again and add 400 grams of alcohol. 1:2 is not usually going to work for dry material, that is why we do a 1:5. 100 grams of plant and 500 grams of alcohol.

200 grams would be too much, way too much, for a pint jar. 100:500 nearly fills a quart jar.

A 1:4 in a pint jar would be something like 50:200. You need to leave room to shake it lovingly :wub: too!!!

The folk method does not utilize any measuring. 1:5 is what it is: one part plant 5 parts liquid.

Are you referring to making a tincture or compounding it with various tinctures that have already been made? Personally, I would not make a tincture in that small a quantity. Tinctures last a long time so I would make quite a bit more, in a pint jar for sure. I like to keep a number of single plant (simple) tinctures around so I can custom compound a small quantity of formula if needed or desired.

The minimum number of plants for a formula would be 2. We have a couple of 2 plant formulas. More important would be to not include too many plants. We try to keep our plant count to 6 to 8 or fewer.

Another thing to consider is the affect you are looking for from the plants. Some plants get a double or triple portion depending on how much effect we are looking to get from the plant compared to the other plants. The more specific the effect we are looking for in the formula the more likely it will get a bump in portions.

Let’s start with the cylinder. What is the next number above the 0 and how many lines are between those two numbers?

I am going to guess that the cylinders are small and that the 10 and 25 are the total capacity.

I need to know the total number of lines for each one.

GREAT! The numbers mark the number of milliliters. To use them you measure out the amount of plant you want in GRAMS. For example: Measure out 100 grams of plant into a container (quart jar recommended). You would then measure out 500 milliliters of alcohol into the 500 or 1000 milliliter containers and add it to your plant material.

That would give you a 1:5 tincture when it is done.

Once the tinctures you want in your formula are all completed you an now compound it.

For a 1:1:1:1:1 formula you would measure out the same amount of completed tincture of each that you want included.

A 4 ounce bottle is the same as about 118 milliliters. To leave yourself some room measure 20 mL of each tincture into the bottle.

Another way to get to the same result would be to mix 20 grams each of the 5 plants and tincture it in one fell swoop.

That is the wonderful thing about ratios: all you have to do is scale it to whatever size container you are using. If it fits in a quart jar just cut everything in half to fit in a pint jar.

Too dry or not depends on the particular plant you are using. Some will soak up all the liquid. Some will be swimming. It would be best to find one ratio that works for the vast majority of plants and stick with that. For us we have found that 1:5 works. Sometimes the mix is a bit dry but I can press most of it out anyway.

The ratio is volume non specific. You could make a 1:5 in a swimming pool if you wanted to. The weight/volume of each ingredient is just increased or decreased to fit the container.

Your second question would be a good one for another discussion topic!!! 🙂

Here is a link to the new topic:

No, it is not impossible. You just need to find the right combination. We do 1:5 in pints all of the time. Usually it is 20:100 but there is usually quite a bit of room left. I do 100:500 in QUART jars, not pints. I would expect a 50:250 combination would work for most herbs but there will always be exceptions. Try 25:125.

Remember, some plants are very thirsty in some forms and may require a different ratio like 1:6 or 1:7 but I have come across very few that I cannot do 1:5.

You are right, that is a small amount. I am just trying to help you get to your desire of a pint sized tincture. If you want to make more tincture you will need to go to a larger jar. I do 100:500 in a quart jar all the time, even with willow. I have even done 200:1000 in a half gallon jar.

Remember, you will never get the full volume of the container you are using. You need plenty of room to shake it lovingly. Jar size is relevant only to the desired quantity at the end of the process and your ability to press what is there without dividing it up. I do 100:500 because it fits the jar and press well and I get good recovery. I usually get 80+ percent recovered even if the tincture looks dry. Typical is 90+ percent.

A larger jar will get you volume, not strength. To get strength you need to reduce the ratio from say 1:5 to 1:4 or 1:3. It all depends on the herb you are working with whether you will be able to do that or not. As you have already noted, your willow seems to be thirsty and wants more liquid to be wet enough for your taste.

One thing to note, with more plant and less liquid you should expect less recovered tincture as the plant will hold on to some of the liquid. Just a fact of science.

Not to question your abilities, but are you taring properly at each step? Tare before adding the plant and tare before adding the liquid? We have had students not do that and it really makes a huge difference.

I have never done a tincture using the ounce setting. I always use grams. I think that might be part of the problem. I will need to do a test to see if this is true but my understanding is dry ounces and fluid ounces are not directly compatible. Do it with grams.

Tinctures only take a week to two weeks to be ready. Depending on how finely ground the material is we suspect a tincture would be ready in just a few days. We use two weeks just to make sure.

To review. for a 1:4 you measure out the plant in grams, say 30. You then add 4 times that in alcohol, also in grams. Grams and ml are the same thing or close enough. That is the one smart thing that came out of Europe!!! 🙂 This is where the ounce thing fails, I believe. Do it all in GRAMS.

Here is what I would do in your situation. Write everything you are doing down so you can make adjustments as needed. Make sure your scale is in GRAMS mode. In a quart jar add 150 grams of plant. Then add 3 times that in alcohol. That would be 450 grams. That would be a 1:3 tincture. You will need to determine if it is too dry or not. I do not know and cannot predict the quantity of finished product, especially since I do not know what you have for pressing. If it is too dry add another 150 grams of alcohol. Now you have a 1:4.

Yes, as I explained in my previous post.

I do not know. What I do know is those lines are NOT accurate. I measured from a measuring cup and found them to be quite lacking. If you need accurate measurements us a cup that is marked in fluid ounces.

As I stated I get 80-90+ percent yield depending on the material being pressed. Again, it also depends on what you are using to press with. Hand squeezing will get you a lot less than the 12 ton press we use. I absolutely cannot predict your results.

If you absolutely need to make sure you have enough then make more.

I cannot tell you that. You will have to experiment with your own equipment.

Here is an example from a tincture I made today. The material was Mullein Leaf. It is notoriously light and fluffy when ground as we do, in a Vitamix blender. I measured out 100 grams of ground material. It actually overflowed the jar I was putting it in.

As I added the vodka for a 1:5 ratio the material compressed some, down to about where I would expect the full, hydrated tincture might wind up. This is about 3/4 of the way up the quart jar.

All of the material is dampened, but there is no liquid to do the normal shaking. I will monitor it for a couple of days to see what happens. Sometimes after a bit of time a small amount of liquid is released. Sometimes, but not very often, I will need to add more liquid. I will add in quantities equal to the plant material to keep track of the ratio: 100 more for a 1:6 etc.

Yes, it is. Just remember that adding alcohol WEAKENS the final solution. I prefer to leave it dryer and keep the strength.

Yes, 150:600 is a 1:4. I think you will find that there is not really enough room for it though. I have found that you need 25-30% head room in the jar to get a good agitation while shaking. Remember, plant material is not as dense as liquid and will normally take up quite a bit more room for the same weight of liquid. For example, my mullein leaf. Roots and barks do tend to be more dense than leaves and flowers.

Here is the thing though. You could try and see if it works for you though.

That is what I usually do. 1:5 is the ratio. The quantities I use is 100:500.

Powdered

It does not matter as long as it is dried.

Yes, more jars. I was doing tinctures in 1/2 gallon jars and found the volume to be too much and was dividing it anyway. Quart jars gives me more flexibility.

If you ever get tired of the cylinders just tare again after putting the herb in. Grams is the same as mL, at least close enough for our purposes.

Tare jar

Weigh herb (100 grams)

Tare jar with herbs

Weigh in liquid (500 grams)

Adding a tiny amount will not affect it too much but probably will not do much. I just let it soak as is. Most of it will squeeze out, especially if it is pretty fine.

I learn new things all the time. I would wait to do comfrey root or marshmallow root until you have a good amount of experience. It will NOT hand press at 1:5.

I like them to be coarsely ground or chopped at least. To chop I use a paper cutter.

You can. I probably would not, but that is me.

Give them a chance. I pressed a tincture tonight that had no free liquid and was able to get some tincture out. I don’t know the percent because I popped the cloth 🙁 am not done with the batch. I will have a general idea though.

1:5 marshmallow root. Looked like over cooked oatmeal! I am not looking forward to my comfrey root either.

I don’t believe in taking days to make things. Therefore I prefer hot soap making method and I use a little heat and a blender.

I don’t use alcohol because it is too expensive. I don’t make tinctures but if I did I would use apple cider vinegar not alcohol

🙂

I am into topical. I think tinctures are meant mostly for oral sub lingual administration.Liniments exist! 🙂

HighlyHerbal wrote: I don’t believe in taking days to make things. Therefore I prefer hot soap making method and I use a little heat and a blender.

I don’t use alcohol because it is too expensive. I don’t make tinctures but if I did I would use apple cider vinegar not alcohol

🙂

Vinegar is OK if that’s all you have or if you have a person that can’t/won’t ingest alcohol medicinally. But it is nothing near as effective as a solvent or as a preservative for tincture making.

That mass spectrometer would come in REALLY handy for proving this out….. when are we getting one? :yahoo:

Petrucci054 wrote: I just made a Skullcap 1:5 and it is so incredibly dry. This herb is so fluffy it sucked up all the alcohol. Should i add more?. There will be no tincture with this at a 1:5 waaaay too dry, it looks like there is no liquid inside.

Yup. Just add some more. Some herbs are thirstier than others. Mullein can be particularly fun that way. :0)

Petrucci054 wrote: Do you think the powder of Skullcap would be better to tincture at 1:5 instead of the c/s herb?.

I almost always use powders. No reason not to have the extra surface area for the booze to interact with. You could put your C/S tincture in the blender and see if it looks more liquid.

I have used all grinds and find that a coarse grind works best. If too finely ground it clogs the cloth, if too coarse it holds too much medicine. My 12 ton press :wub: does help get more out too!

The vitamix is the strongest one out there and it still struggles from time to time on heavy things. True, even for some of our home based stuff. Anything is better than nothing as long as you understand its limitations. Most anything will do leaves and flowers. It is the barks and roots that set the bar.

All you said is generally true. I like my material a little coarse because it drains and presses faster. I would give the C/S stuff a little spin in a blender to break it up a little. More surface area vs pressing convenience is a balance you must figure out.

Food processors would probably work to produce some version of c/s. The issue is FP’s are designed to process and eject. Blenders process over and over until you decide to stop the process. This gives a more evenly ground product, I believe.