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Teresa Fields
I’m wondering if Brigham Tea can cause the heart pounding, etc that epinephrine can cause or if it’s a very different herb.
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I guess I’m actually wondering if epinephrine is a constituent of Brigham tea and if it is, if Brigham tea could bring on the same response that the epinephrine does in some people.
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Michelle Koch
Brigham Tea’s botanical name is Ephedra Veritas, and is a species of Ephedra. So yes, people who are sensitive to decongestants that contain ephedra, or derivatives of, or synthetic versions of it, might feel a rapid heart rate and other side effects that go with it. Coincidentally, Sudafed (pseudoephedrine) is a primary ingredient used to manufacture illegal methamphetamine. I remember back in the 90’s they started regulating it, keeping it locked up behind the counter at grocery stores, in an effort to crack down on meth labs. *I should clarify that ephedra is NOT epinephrine, but can stimulate the body to produce more epinephrine.*
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Paisley Nutter
For someone who can’t, or chooses not to, use Brigham Tea for allergies, would nettle be a good second choice?
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Here is what I know: 1) “Doc” does include nettle in his “Histamine” formula. 2) If you were to order something from the shop, you can add a little note in the text box asking the fulfillment team to leave Brigham Tea out of it. 3) If you are making your own allergy formula, dandelion root is also helpful, since it is the liver’s job to move histamine out of the body. 4) If you are a student here, go to the module about allergies, and look at the formula Doc shares in that lesson. 5) If you are not a student, go to the shop, look up the product for allergies, and read the ingredients listed. You will have a better idea of what you want/need.
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Selwyn Lang
I’m new and this is interesting…I’m following…
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Dr. Patrick Jones
Hi Teresa,
I assume you mean ephedrine rather than epinephrine.
Interestingly, they’ve done biochemical analysis of Brigham tea hoping to find ephedrines in it for use in the pharmaceutical industry (It’s cousin Ma Huang, Ephedra sinica has ephedrines in it…so many in fact that there have been some safety issues with some preparations made from it…but that’s another topic).
My understanding is that they didn’t find any. That said, there is obviously something in there that has some ephedrine-like, antihistamine properties.
Brigham tea is a really safe herb. I’ve never heard or read anything alarming about it.
Don't use herbs or combine herbs with medications or use them during lactation or pregnancy without talking with your healthcare provider.
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Sharon
Hey Doc, new student here. I know you said there was nothing alarming, but I’m one of those who can’t take Sudafed because of racing heart. Brigham tea sounds like a good thing in general, but if it would cause a racing heart, I think I’ll have to use one of the substitutes! I appreciate you and this class – I can’t wait to dive in deeply (at least as much as my crazy schedule will allow)!
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Sudafed and Brigham tea are different critters. I don’t know if Brigham tea would have the same effect. Ma Huang (its cousin) probably would.
Don't use herbs or combine herbs with medications or use them during lactation or pregnancy without talking with your healthcare provider.
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Marjorie
Sudafed is like Speed for my husband and he won’t take it. I just gave him some Brigham tea last weekend (fresh harvested out of our yard- our cabin is in the high desert SW) and no issues at all. We both thought it tasted rather good. It’s the first time he’s been able to go to our cabin and not be affected by allergies.
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Wow, this is encouraging Marjorie! Thank you for making me feel more comfortable with that herb. And really glad to know it helped him so much with his allergies!
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KB
This post got me hunting (again) among the ephedras and the ephedrine, and whatever might be producing an antihistamine like effect.
Ephedrine is a big mix of isomers. As a whole, they exhibit weak agonistic activity on alpha and beta adrenergic receptors with most of the action being to cause the presynaptic norepinephrine storage vesicles to dump their norepi into the body and cause arterial constriction, inotropic effects on the heart, some bronchodilation, etc. Rest assured, the anaesthesiogists in the USA are using plenty of injectable ephedrine to counteract low blood pressure due to their sedation efforts. It has also been used for postop nausea.
I see so much back and forth about whether Ephedra viridis and Ephedra navidensis have none or just a little ephedrine alkaloids. I saw one claim: “Mowed, Gottlieb and Castleman have said that ephedrine is not the active constituent of Mormon tea – but its most active constituent is (+)-norpseudoephedrine, a much more strong stimulant for the central nervous system”. For the life of me, I can’t find the direct reference, and the only link to it is very dead. The doper chemists who want to synthesize questionable drugs are NOT giving up on extracting their precursors from USA native species, though I saw None of them actually reporting success.
I saw tannin constituents being credited for astringency and drying up secretions, which could be seen as the antihistamine like effect. I haven’t found specific info on mechanism, such as mast cell stabilization or something like that, and will remain curious purple as to exactly what makes USA Ephedra species work.
Anyway, we’re going to need our cool weeds more than ever. It’s not so happy in allopathic land, these days so I broke down and started reading “The Web that has no Weaver” TCM book.
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KB – you used a lot of really big words and paralyzed my brain {insert really goofy face here}! I wish I could say I understood all that (and especially the last part about cooling our weeds), but sadly it was over my head. I’m going to use a take-away that the herb doesn’t have much if any actual stimulating effects. Thanks!
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Sharon, Ya, you’re right that’s the main agreement on our Ephedra species.
And I do get lost in the weeds a lot. 😎
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LOL! Weeds (at least the good ones) are a good place to get lost! Thanks.
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It does have some stimulating effects but not anything like its Chinese cousin Ma Huang and probably not from the same chemicals. That said, it’s a nice way to get past 3 in the afternoon without a Mountain Dew. It’s nota as jarring as caffeine and lets you down easier as it wears off.
Don't use herbs or combine herbs with medications or use them during lactation or pregnancy without talking with your healthcare provider.
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KB has a great post here. Allow me to provide some translation services for those that don’t speak physiology…As well as some thoughts of my own.
Mine in Bold. :0)
This post got me hunting (again) among the ephedras and the ephedrine, and whatever might be producing an antihistamine like effect.
Ephedrine is a big mix of isomers.
Isomers are subtle variations of the same chemical. They have the same formula but arrange their atoms a little differently for fun. This can give them different properties at times. If a fellow wears his baseball cap frontwards, people think he likes baseball. If he wears it backward, people think he’s trying to be cool. Both fellows make a different impression on the guests at a party and might be treated differently. Thus, different isomers of the same chemical are sometimes perceived and used differently by the cells in the body.
As a whole, they exhibit weak agonistic activity on alpha and beta adrenergic receptors with most of the action being to cause the presynaptic norepinephrine storage vesicles to dump their norepi into the body and cause arterial constriction, inotropic effects on the heart, some bronchodilation, etc. Rest assured, the anaesthesiogists in the USA are using plenty of injectable ephedrine to counteract low blood pressure due to their sedation efforts. It has also been used for postop nausea.
Ephedrine and its happy isomers can attach to and stimulate the receptors on cells that are looking for indications of an emergency (neurotranmitters called catecholamines)…in other words the fight or flight response. When those receptors get triggered by the ephedrines, their response is to release norepinephrine into the blood stream. Norepinephrine is similar to “adrenaline” which stimulates the fight or flight response. One of the effects of norepinephrine and epinephrine (adrenaline) is that they constrict the blood vessels in the extremities. This has two good effects. First, if a lion bites your arm you won’t bleed as much. Second, constricting blood flow to the extremities increases blood volume and flow (and pressure) in the core where all the vital organs are so they can function better. This is why anesthesiologists like epedrines, because most of their drugs are vasodilators and muscle relaxants and can drop blood pressure. So using ehedrines to constrict blood flow to the extremities keeps the blood pressure in the core and the brain from dropping from the anesthesia.
I see so much back and forth about whether Ephedra viridis and Ephedra navidensis have none or just a little ephedrine alkaloids. I saw one claim: “Mowed, Gottlieb and Castleman have said that ephedrine is not the active constituent of Mormon tea – but its most active constituent is (+)-norpseudoephedrine, a much more strong stimulant for the central nervous system”. For the life of me, I can’t find the direct reference, and the only link to it is very dead. The doper chemists who want to synthesize questionable drugs are NOT giving up on extracting their precursors from USA native species, though I saw None of them actually reporting success.
Biochemists, physiologists doctors etc…are having a hard time unraveling the intricacies of human chemistry let alone plant chemistry. Even the best of us are like a fellow that thinks he understands a lot about how a car works because he knows the tires go round and round and exhaust comes out the back…oh and if you don’t put gasoline in the tank the tires won’t go round and round. We don’t know about spark plugs yet and when we discover those, we won’t know how electrons are causing an ignition spark that initiates combustion…which is the breaking of carbon bonds in petroleum molecules that releases heat energy which causes heating of air molecules which then expand their volume to force a piston to go up and down. Some of the researchers trying to find a certain chemicals in a plant can’t find them because they are looking for the wrong ones.
I saw tannin constituents being credited for astringency and drying up secretions, which could be seen as the antihistamine like effect. I haven’t found specific info on mechanism, such as mast cell stabilization or something like that, and will remain curious purple as to exactly what makes USA Ephedra species work.
Tannins dry things up which may be part of the Brigham tea effect of stopping runny noses. But here are probably other antihistamine things happening too.
Anyway, we’re going to need our cool weeds more than ever. It’s not so happy in allopathic land, these days so I broke down and started reading “The Web that has no Weaver” TCM book.
TCM is Traditional Chinese Medicine. The ancient Chinese had no real understanding of anatomy and physiology. They don’t even recognize the nervous system let alone what neurotransmitters are doing to cell receptors. What they did have was (and is) an extraordinary metaphoric model to organize and relate the different actions of medicinal plants on the body. The crazy thing is that modern research has tested acupuncture and found solid, factual results. They have no idea how it works, but they can measure that it works. If they couldn’t find the ephedrines they’re looking for, I have little hope of them finding the Qi. :0)
Don't use herbs or combine herbs with medications or use them during lactation or pregnancy without talking with your healthcare provider.
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Thanks for the easy to understand, and humorous translation Doc!
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