Desired herbal actions vs undesired herbal actions (Horsetail)

[Lisabeth SeverinStudent]

I’m not sure where the best folder for this topic is.

What if there is an herb that you are excited to use for one of its properties/actions, but then there is another of its actions you don’t want? I know there are so many herbs that you can often find another one to provide the help you are seeking. However, sometimes there isn’t one conveniently growing in your yard or neighborhood.

 

I am specifically thinking of horsetail (Equisetum spp.) It grows wild in abundance around here, and I’ve read that it is good for connective tissue, bones and nails. Supposedly it’s one of the few plants high in bio-available silica and drinking its tea can help to repair damaged connective tissue, promote strong hair and nails and even mend broken bones.

However, I also read that it’s a strong diuretic, something I have no need for help with at this time…and I’d prefer not to be waking up 10 times a night with trips to the bathroom.

So many herbs seem to also be diuretics, is there a way to use them without having to get up several times a night?

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Teresa@Redbarnfarm

[Mary StreeterStudent]

Thank you for asking this  question, I have been interested in horsetail as well. We have it in abundance around here too.

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Natalie Stamenov, Lisabeth Severin

[PaigeStudent]

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression with herbs that the body selects what it needs.  That is why when you use an herb and it ‘fixes” another problem, it is the body identifying a component of an herb it needs and reacts accordingly.  Confirmation would be appreciated.

PMR

1 user thanked author for this post.

Lisabeth Severin

[Lisabeth SeverinStudentTopic Author]

Thanks for your replies.

Paige wrote:

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression with herbs that the body selects what it needs.  That is why when you use an herb and it ‘fixes” another problem, it is the body identifying a component of an herb it needs and reacts accordingly.  Confirmation would be appreciated.

Well, that certainly would be nice if you could take an herb with strong diuretic action (horsetail) but not have to deal with it if you don’t need it. I don’t feel very confident that herbs are that way, so I hope the Doc or someone can chime in.

I drank 2 large cups of roasted dandelion tea at midday a few weeks ago and I had to get up way too many times in the night to pee. So now I am afraid of that tea! 😀

However, IF herbal actions ONLY work if your body needs it, then I wonder why I would need a diuretic? Something for me to ponder.

[Lisabeth SeverinStudentTopic Author]

So I had a think about this while I was busy with other things.

Paige wrote:

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression with herbs that the body selects what it needs.  That is why when you use an herb and it ‘fixes” another problem, it is the body identifying a component of an herb it needs and reacts accordingly.  Confirmation would be appreciated.

Here’s what I’m thinking. If the body only selected the actions it needs from any herb, then you wouldn’t have to be careful with herbs, you could take them willy nilly. And what about herbs with toxicity? Surely you wouldn’t have to be cautious with those herbs because the body would only use what it needs and reject the rest. But…what do I know, I’m just a new student.

Now, herbal amphoterics normalize or balance the body, so if your blood pressure is high, cayenne lowers it; if your blood pressure is low, cayenne raises it.  When I read about that, I was intrigued because I thought, how can that be? So I looked through my books and searched online, but I found very little concrete info about it. Its all very mysterious and almost sounds magical, but its “just the herb restoring your body’s ability to self-regulate”.  And some people argue that any adaptogen has to also be amphoteric because adaptogens operate down at the level of your body’s stress response and how your body tries to adapt and correct for that. (So says commonwealth herbs . com ) And supposedly there’s crossover with immunomodulators as well. Anyway, I’m very intrigued and hope I can find more info on it.

So maybe there’s an explanation out there for the theory that the body only selects the actions that it needs from an herb…but a big part of me would need to read research or some qualifiers…like not just any herb, but alterative herbs can do that.

I sure hope somebody knows for sure and can chime in here. LOL

[Lisabeth SeverinStudentTopic Author]

Mary Streeter wrote:

Thank you for asking this  question, I have been interested in horsetail as well. We have it in abundance around here too.

Hi Paige, I thought I’d update some info on Horsetail since you are interested in it, and for anyone else…I wanted to include a warning about Marsh Horsetail.

The book I got the info about Equisetum arvense (Horsetail) being strongly diuretic is an older book, “The Complete Medicinal Herbal”, copyrighted 1993. “A strong diuretic for urinary tract and prostrate disorders, they [aerial parts] also tonify the mucous membranes, can control bed-wetting, and help with skin problems.” She claims you can “harvest throughout the growing period.” She lists its actions as “Astringent, stops bleeding, diuretic, anti-inflammatory, tissue healer.” Pg 55

What I hadn’t noticed before, she has Horsetail listed in the back in a separate section about ‘cures’, this page for “Problems of the Elderly”, under Incontinence. She advises to take it as a simple or with St. John’s wort or sweet sumac tincture for incontinence.

David Hoffmann in his “Medical Herbalism” book copyright 2003, writes that E. arvense actions are: astringent, diuretic, vulnerary. “While it acts as a mild diuretic, its toning and astringent actions make it invaluable in the treatment of incontinence and bedwetting in children.” Under safety considerations “No side effects or drug interactions have been reported.” Pg 547

Scott Kloos, in his 2017 book, “Pacific Northwest Medicinal Plants” writes of Equisetum arvense – aka field horsetail, scouring rush. Parts used: vegetative stalk (the part topped with a ‘brush’, not the shorter spore-bearing stalk)

“As one of the few plants high in bio-available silica, drinking the tea helps repair and strengthen damaged connective tissue, mend broken bones, and promote strong hair and nail growth.” Also, drinking a tea made from the stalk has diuretic properties, lowers urine pH to help clear urinary tract infections, and strengthens the kidney and bladders.

“Harvest the sterile green shoots from early spring to early summer before the branches droop below horizontal.” Why? Because later than that the concentration of silica becomes too high “…and may cause gastrointestinal upset.” “Avoid taking horsetail internally for long periods as it may lead to thiamine deficiency.”Pg 202

“Except for the potentially toxic marsh horsetail (Equisetum palustre), all other species of Equisetum found in the Pacific Northwest may be used interchangeably with E. arvense.” Pg 201

So there you go. It sounds as if its more mildly diuretic, so my worries about waking up 5 times a night are probably unfounded.

Book info:

The Complete Medicinal Herbal, by Penelope Ody; First American Edition, Dorking Kindersley Ltd., New York, New York, c. 1993; p 55 and pp 172-173.

Medical Herbalism: The Science and Practice of Herbal Medicine, by David Hoffmann, Healing Arts Press, Rochester, VT, c. 2003.

Pacific Northwest Medicinal Plants: Identify, Harvest, And Use 120 Wild Herbs for Health and Wellness, by Scott Kloos; Timber Press, Portland OR, c. 2017. pg 201-202

7 users thanked author for this post.

Lisa Bateman, Teresa@Redbarnfarm, Deanna Denyer, Dolores Knight, Paige, Jane Melonas, Hannah Bison

[Dr. Patrick JonesHomestead Instructor]

Any herb that is a diuretic will increase urination. Offering an herb to the body with twenty chemicals in it allows the body to access what it needs. But it doesn’t keep the other guys from doing their thing as well.  :0)

As to the horsetail and how to get the silica (which no one else really has) take it in the morning. That way you’ll get the nutrition but the diuretic effect will have worn off by bedtime.

Here are some other foods and herbs that contain silica:

Foods:

• Oats
• Whole grains (such as brown rice, barley, and wheat)
• Quinoa
• Millet
• Buckwheat
• Beans and legumes (especially chickpeas and lentils)
• Peanuts
• Bamboo shoots
• Bell peppers
• Leafy green vegetables (such as kale, spinach, and lettuce)
• Cucumbers
• Strawberries
• Avocado
• Bananas
• Oranges
• Raisins
• Nuts (especially almonds and walnuts)

Herbs:

• Horsetail (Equisetum arvense): Horsetail is known for its high silica content
• Nettle (Urtica dioica): Nettle leaves contain silica
• Oat straw (Avena sativa): rich in silica
• Bamboo extract: Bamboo extract is derived from bamboo shoots and is a common source of silica in many supplements.

Don't use herbs or combine herbs with medications or use them during lactation or pregnancy without talking with your healthcare provider.

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Mary Brown, Natalie Stamenov, Charlotte Chumlea

[Natalie StamenovStudent]

I am not sure this is the place to ask this question. Please forgive me if it is not.  I have two chickens that are molting currently in the winter. I wanted to add some herbs that would support their body in bringing in healthy, strong new feathers. I thought about horsetail as it helps with nails, hair, connective tissue and bones. But when I have tried to search to see about its safety with Chickens I am finding  information that says it’s toxic to chickens. I wanted to verify this with Dr. Jones or anyone on here who might have some experience in this area. Also I have read in numerous places that I should not feed my chickens Oats as it negatively affects their digestion? Can anyone chime in on this? I am seeing oats on the list of foods with silica which I would think would be helpful to the chickens during molting. I also thought about incorporating Burdock Root as I noticed it in the ingredients of the joint support formula for pets. Thank you for ANY information this wonderful community can offer!

Health is a lifetime study ~Natalie

• This reply was modified 1 year ago by Natalie Stamenov.

[Dr. Patrick JonesHomestead Instructor]

Horsetail in high doses can be problematic and since chickens are little folk, safe dosing margins are much narrower. I’d give your girls some dark leafy greens and vegetable scraps/greens. They’ll think you love them. :0)

Don't use herbs or combine herbs with medications or use them during lactation or pregnancy without talking with your healthcare provider.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Natalie Stamenov

[Natalie StamenovStudent]

Thanks for the advice/suggestions. I will stick to the dark leafy greens and veggies scraps.  :o)
Would the Oats and Burdock Root be beneficial for them?

Health is a lifetime study ~Natalie

• This reply was modified 1 year ago by Natalie Stamenov.

[Donna LarsonStudent]

 

Would Horsetail be safe, and a good choice, to give children for a urinary tract infection, or is there something better?

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