ratios on tinctures

[cherig]

On a few of the tinctures I have made (for long term storage) with certain herbs, I find that if I use the 1:4 or even a 1:5 ratio it does not even cover the herbs. Specifically the one I was working with was dried red clover, elderberries, and alfalfa. It ended up almost a 1:10 ratio to cover this mix. My question is if ratios like this are too diluted to be used medicinally.

[IdahoHerbalist]

First question: were the herbs whole, cut or ground to a powder?

About the ratio versus medicinal viability: the medicine is there, it is just more dilute. A more dilute mixture will just require a larger dose to get the effect desired. If a 1:5 was desired and you wound up with a 1:10 it would take roughly twice the dose.

The only issue is it costs more due to the extra menstruum that a tighter ratio would not have.

[Dr. Patrick JonesHomestead Instructor]

Some herbs are thirstier than others. I recently made a dry mullein tincture that went to 1:10. Yarrow almost always needs at least 1:6. As Steven said, the medicine is still there, you just need to take a bigger dose.

Doc

Don't use herbs or combine herbs with medications or use them during lactation or pregnancy without talking with your healthcare provider.

[cherig]

thanks for the info.

[sstolzenburgStudent]

Doc, when you say 4:1, are you talking by weight or volume? If i go by weight, I can see how the herbs might overwhelm the liquid. But volume is another matter. i am usually calling 1 cup herb to 2 cups liquid A 1:2 mixture. If I go by weight I would need much more liquid. Again i am having trouble understanding the ratio problem when figuring dosages. I have never heard a straight answer. What does 2:1 mean…by weight or volume. And is that standard for herbalists? I mean when I read David Hoffman’s book on Medicinal herbs what is he talking about when he says 3:1?

[IdahoHerbalist]

!:4 goes like this

Weigh out the herb in grams, say 100 grams

The liquid can be done two ways:

Measure out 400 ml of liquid

or

Weigh out 400 grams of liquid.

Why? 1 cc = 1 ml = 1 gram of water at sea level. Close enough for our purposes here.

[sstolzenburgStudent]

Ok, the ratio is by weight not volume. That has always been a source of confusion for me. I have tried to get that answered before, but I guess it was obvious to every one else. My problem stems form another herbalist who’s formulas were in volume, and that was where I started before I met Doc Jones.

[IdahoHerbalist]

The marc (solid) is in weight (grams).

The menstruum (liquid) can be in weight (grams) OR volume (ml) as long as you stay in the metric.

[Dr. Patrick JonesHomestead Instructor]

IdahoHerbalist wrote: The marc (solid) is in weight (grams).

The menstruum (liquid) can be in weight (grams) OR volume (ml) as long as you stay in the metric.

Because when the Frenchies invented the metric system, they defined 1 gram as 1 cubic centimeter of water at sea level. so a gram and a cc are, for all intents and purposes, the same thing. A milliliter is also a cc. So, whether you weigh the booze on a gram scale or measure it’s volume in ccs or mls you’ll be fine.

Doc

Don't use herbs or combine herbs with medications or use them during lactation or pregnancy without talking with your healthcare provider.

[AnnettStudent]

Being the novice I am, I too am having the same problem following ratios and having enough alcohol. Page 33 of Doc’s book says to use a 1:1 ration for fresh herbs. So I had 86 grams of fresh echinacea root and 86 grams of alcohol and the alcohol wont even cover the echinacea. Do I leave it as such and just shake it up each day to keep it potent? Or do I add alcohol until it is covered? What is your advice to get the best result? And how do I know what an appropriate dose is when it’s done sitting for two weeks?

[IdahoHerbalist]

If you want to keep an absolute ratio then add one more portion of alcohol and call it 1:2. If not, then cover with just enough to cover and call it Folk.

[AnnettStudent]

Can you help me understand the information on a tincture bottle? The ingredients are listed and then under “Other Ingredients” it says, Demineralized water, Ethanol (20%).

20% of what?

How do I know how much herb is really in there?

And, is “Ethanol” the same as the Vodka we use under Doc’s tutelage?

[IdahoHerbalist]

20 percent alcohol. Not enough for a long term preservation.

[Author]

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